Board Thread:Fun and Games/@comment-27460754-20160124200151/@comment-27460754-20160402000605

@Lostone2, I completely understand and will be making a closing statement on the subject of Vhala here and dropping the topic afterwards to keep things civil. I recognize the topic has gotten too heated and do not want to derail or ruin the thread.

@ Ripett. Yeeeeah, that was a hiccup from transferring the file from word to here, I think some was lost as I didn't save the word file it was on. But you are right about the switch point and I apologize for not being more thorough.

Maybe, but she makes the point about the wisdom and innocence well before her age comes out so while she has gained experience through time and life, I keep that separate from what she says she gained by becoming an Unperson. However, I do not say she is monolithic in her beliefs or cannot accept those that differ as she right off the bat when Sarai is mentioned says that she often finds herself leaning towards Sarai's way of thinking. It could be as you say that while she did become a magical eunuch for the reason she stated, she also gained even more wisdom afterwards and that tempered her immediate acquisition.

You do make a very good point that she has to or had to (depending on the time frame) make peace with her decision as well as maybe having to convince herself it was the right one due to it being a 'burn the ships so there is no retreat.' process. I agree that over half a century of regrets and doubts would plague her heavily, so I can see what you mean about her basically compartmentalizing and putting aside any hesitation about the road she's on.

Way I see it, she probably won't take it...and that's perfectly valid. She made her choice, is at peace with it, and does not seek to push it on others beyond saying the bit about 'purity' which isn't any worse than Carina has said.



My final thoughts on the matter, as this topic has gotten too heated and personal, is that Vhala is a  magical Eunuch, that's it. She's not a bad person, I was wrong about her not being able to empathize, (although I still feel that with the limited interactions we had in 0.16.0, it isn't that hard to come to that conclusion.) and she does apologize for not trusting Simon once Dari is free.

And that isn't the only good moment she has either. When Dari and Simon talk in the Unforge after he removes the barrier, and Dari gets bitter about the hope of being 'fixed' (the term is valid for Dari as she wasn't a volunteer, but not for Vhala as she was.), we get a moment of Vhala looking upset that something that gave her so much peace and clarity was used to hurt someone she considered a friend. THAT is a great way to showcase the range this character has.

I don't hate her, I don't even really dislike her, as I can't really blame her for the way she came down on Nalili. (she's a sweet girl but she wasn't exactly debating either and Vhala did the right thing in simply refuting Nalili's statements and not making things worse.). I simply don't see what she's gone through or what she deals with as that great a deal, as I can find plenty of instances of other characters having gone through similar or the same type. She does care about her countrymen and sentients in general (succubi notwithstanding, considering her purpose) and she could have easily been happy about the thought about the Unforge being put to use making more like her, but she wanted to stop the plot first and (in my game, the bill got defeated) was glad it didn't pass and so she could make sure no one ended up like Dari.

I am neutral towards her character with a bias against her claim that her becoming a eunuch gave her such enlightenment and wisdom. She doesn't need to change, she doesn't need to be fixed, and I am honestly tired of talking about her.



Hmmm, I see your point. He did come down on the leader hard and pretty much lead the questioning towards the conclusion that they were operating without backing, going so far as to assume his support. But at the same time, I kinda think that Alanon came down on them because he's trying to distance himself from the world, remove himself from having to be involved in any way and these Cultists dragged him in by using his name.

"In the name of the (insert gender of Ruler here.) is a very big thing in monarchies as it is saying that whatever is happening is being done with the ruler's full backing and knowledge, that the ruler has accepted responsibility. I think for a person like Alanon who wants to do nothing and just fade away, having such acts done in his name and being accused of being like them would honk him off enough to make him want to slam them hard.

But to be fair, you make a very good case for Alanon being more active and simply being more subtle. I think this is something we will have to see more of the game to know. Either way, I don't see him being in the game too much longer and I think Tyna will make a very good Queen, either by Simon's side as one of the rulers Married to him or on her own.

For the bank part, you make a good case for the more money in the bank, the more would potentially be used for the benefit of the city in general. The closest I can think to a reason is too much and the extra money is wasted, too little and there's not enough to go around so 800k is the 'sweet spot'. Other than that, I'll be satisfied with my cheapy +3 economy points :P



For the votes, you have that right, and the ones we cannot influence really are more like plot platforms for the politicking to center around, like how you can agree to vote yes or no for the war. Nothing really changes, but you can either get real support from the Aramite or get BS by the Ardan (we get a glimpse of her true nature back during Alanon's meeting with his advisors, where she says she's going to 'make promises and get concessions.').

I also agree with your summation about the orc extermination and my feeling is that Sierra set that up so that there are both pros and cons to the vote so that no player is punished for the choice they make. It'll be another case of 'what bonus does the player want.' with some changes to lore based on the result. I too went with getting the bill to fail, partly for the reasons you and I describe, but also due to the AP we get with Bhalia, who has little enough gains that it seems like a waste not to get as many as possible.

One final thing before this thread is closed, is what the Ziratanian ambassador says about their country if you are honest with him, about the various factions trying to determine which traditions to follow. I wonder what those are and what they mean for the fate of their country. We really haven't seen a lot about them in terms of characters or lore, so it'll be nice to get some more details.