Board Thread:Fun and Games/@comment-27460754-20160124200151/@comment-27460754-20160215032348

I object strongly to this characterization and this value judgment. If her old self entered into it voluntarily, happily, and her new self is happy with the change and would do it again, who are we to judge? If a person takes psychiatric medication to alter their personality for the better, is that also bad in your view?

Nor is it appropriate to bust out a label like sociopath. I mean, if you're a heterosexual you can't relate to what most of the opposite sex finds attractive, but that's not a lack of empathy. Vhala also does not show a disregard for ethics or a lack of remorse for misdeeds. And it's not as if her views on the libido are unprecedented.

It is subjectively disturbing, perhaps. Unnatural, certainly, but so is cooked food and air conditioning. Nothing worth condemnation. You can object as strongly as you wish, doesn't mean it will convince me. I certainly did not go out of my way to direct this at you in any manner and the way you seem to be taking this personally doesn't change my opinion. (if I am wrong on how I am reading your response, I do apologize for that, reading tone is text is a weakness of mine.) I will try to respond in a civil manner but I certainly will not apologize for stating my opinion. If more context to her character provides evidence I am dead wrong, I will happily admit it, until then I will hold true.

People can do fanatical things in a positive state of mind and consider the results beneficial despite said being completely the opposite. So her "happiness" about cutting out chunks of her soul to me really doesn't change my opinion.

There is a difference between taking medications to balance out chemistry or removing only one's genitals (which I did not comment on because there have been societies where that was done voluntarily and the persons were stable and happy), and actively removing portions of personality and ability to relate to others because of a dogmatic belief that humanity is in danger of permanent corruption and that is the method to deal with it. Again, a good part of what freaked me out was that they are zealouts and believe this is the right thing for people to go through to the point where their fringe members are advocating the sterility of humanity via this method.

" Desecrationalists: They believe mortals are born pure, but can irrevocably lose the purity to sin. They are zealots, but because of their use of Unmen and Unwomen in battles, they are not to be trifled with."

I will concede that she shows awareness of ethics but remember I said "Functioning sociopath" and sociopaths don't necessarily have an inability to show that so again, it's a point but doesn't really dissuade me. Nor does her show of regret. She's been stuck in politics for who knows how long and one of the key things about good politicians is that they are amazing actors, so who's to say she hasn't gotten used to putting up a front? After all, she was extremely cold and calculating when she got Simon alone, arguably the best time for her to not have to put on a mask.

I'd also like to point out that our first exposure to them was the "zombie house" when we rescue Megail. And before you pull it out, yes I am aware they make a point in the game to mention how far gone they were and that isn't necessarily...but that remains the fact that they still started out like Vhala and all that it took to reach that point was time as far as we know.

I'd also like to point out this isn't the only way to deal with lust or corruption. Sarai, as much as it frustrates her, is under several spells and I'm guessing geas that prevent her from being "tainted" (I used quotes because at this point, Simon is the only one that wouldn't apply to.). So the "Rip out pieces of soul and mutilate oneself" option is NOT the only method nor is it any less fantatical. And that was my main point, that she was a sincere fantatic and that is what scared  me the most.

I will concede that Yarra and Qum's reactions to her influenced me strongly but this is the speculation thread, not the canon confirmation thread. I took the time to think your points over and give my own statements due consideration and I still stand by them. I certainly will not say I cannot be wrong or that I misread the situation. But that was my first impression, that's what I got out of the character, and that was my speculation. I will  admit I can see where you are coming from in that she merely put herself in a "sexless" state, but it doesn't jive with me and so I cannot support it or see it in the character unless I really look for it. That doesn't mean that if you right I won't be happy, I'd rather be wrong about something negative than positive after all.

So while I will not say you are wrong, I cannot say you are right either and will ask that we agree to disagree on this matter of how the character is being read. I will however thank you for making me think about this and engaging me on a rational level about it. I am certainly not offended or upset with you myself and look forward to future conversations.

PS. how did you get multiple quotes? I cannot manage it and just keep wiping the reply clean with the latest quote.

Now that that is out of the way, onto the rest of the conversations.

"The Arsehole of Arclent and a talking squirrel are party members?!? We gotta totally rethink... yeah, nothing. Told ya not to read too much into the skills menu before. She just kinda told us not to. Incidentally, if anyone happens to check out the /graphics/pictures menu for Ivala.gif I thought that was a particularly well done inside joke, too. (It's Dramatic Chipmunk)."

Hehehe, I am getting a huge kick out of the fact that the nickname I came up with is now the byword for the schmuck but yup, I have no idea how to look into that stuff so the little poke on the nose from SL while amusing, doesn't change my thinking. I'll take your word for it on the Dramatic Chipmunk bit, like I said I really don't know how to access that stuff.

"I honestly don't know what to make of Vhala and Antarion just yet. I know they get their own pictures and are named, but technically so are Mestan (cloak guy) and Palina (purple Aram captain). I'm sure they're important, but friend, foe or just major character is still up in the air for me. All of these guys could just be red herrings. I'm also curious about Tyne, but I don't think she'll be one of our ruler harem members. Doesn't really sounds like she'll even be a harem member from what Simon says. It is sort of starting to sound like we might need to defeat Alonon though."

Like I said in my first posting about her and the response to Decanter's, Do I hope I'm wrong about Vhala and the way I read her character but I still get the impression of a sincere but fantatical person who can and has done extreme things. I do admit I tend to read deeply into things and that my impression is a result of my chasing a read herring but like you said, she could be an enemy later. As for the rest, yeah I don't know, Antarion and Vhala could go either way as of yet. But I will say that while I generally see Antarion on the "pure" side, I can't help but wonder if the Arsehole was like him before getting the shard.

Tyne is interesting and I agree it doesn't look like she'll be joining, but at the same time I can see her being a "alliance marriage" down the line. Or she could just be the young girl that Simon mentors into a good ruler. Either works for me.

Yeah, the King is just coming across as too depressed and yet determined to fight, and those are never a good combination in anyone, let alone a ruler.

" Disagree. Ginasta was pretty clear while presenting: She does not believe an Incubus King's power can be wielded for good."

Fair point, I do need to do another playthrough when I'm less tired, but that merely put it into my " Course, she could have missed it and that could create drama/humor later depending on how she handles her gaff." bit, either way, obviously not going to be resolved right away. I'm thinking after the Arsehole dies Ginasta will do an Elrond and beg Simon to "Cast it into the fire.", only to see Simon absorb it. That will be a moment if it happens like that.

"The thing about the Givini is that they're rare because SL's depending mostly on free resources, or at least premade ones. And decent sprites/art for black people are relatively rare. That doesn't rule this out, but it does mean a lot of it would have to happen offscreen."

You know, I hadn't thought of that but it does fit the facts nicely. I do agree that if this is the case, the offscreen dealings would make the most sense. Doesn't change how cool it'll be for Simon to get to be a kingdom maker. I'll admit Simon saying he stuck around for the King of Givini's last stand also influences my feelings on this, as I can see Simon feeling invested in the fall of the old Kingdom and wanting to give it back to them if he can.

"Yeah, they're pretty great. Don't know about humbling - Simon does point out that they're on the same team. This might be as far as it goes.

Also, I hope SL adds one for Robin."



When I said humbling, I should have made it clear I meant it in the sense that Antarion seems to be getting set up to learn that the dueling hall is not the same as a battlefield, as Simon makes a point to mention that. Basically he came off as a competent Chosen, in the sense of great skill/talent and a penchant for wooing anyone he thinks he has a chance with.



But in terms of the putdowns, I loved Carina's, Trin's (more because Simon was like "nooo, bad crazy girl."), and Nalili's was  brilliant.



"I think she's just being an introvert..."



An excellent point, I'll cop to really wanting to see Robin let loose on her inhibitions, I'm completely with Yarra and Nalili on that one.