Board Thread:The Last Sovereign Discussion/@comment-27713488-20180327004110/@comment-29984007-20180409164518

DukeLeto7 wrote: Simple thoughts first.

I'm now coming around to the idea that Esthera and not Fheliel is the most likely harem member in the leaders list between Sarai and the elves. My money is now on the team swapping Riala's shard for hers somehow.

fheliel don't had any rp change (but some 'impressed' flag), esthera had rp gain from the start. :P

But Alonon says that Varia's "Destiny" is not being controlled by an outside agency. There's no purpose. He also says that there is no chance governing what happens, so it's not an indeterministic universe. So is what's happening to Varia a natural deterministic consequence of the physical/magical laws of the universe of TLS? OK, then what's the problem? No one is controlling her destiny.

a force without meaning craft a 'destiny' for everyone, after that your action isn't controlled o change by outside influence (more or less my interpretation) alonon word "we have free will, but the free will is a joke".

If you want to try a genuinely toy deterministic universe where the laws of physics and their consequences are known perfectly ... you are in a great error. nothing can be determinate determinate in a determinate universe, even if we will know all the force in the universe, all the effect an phenomena AND we gain the perfect knowledge of an instant (aka starting condition) you can calculate the result for a brief time. [don't touch the QM theory, isn't needed and scale the complexity of the problem of MANY magnitude]. the mathematic can be perfect, but the calculation isn't not. in the real world (TM) the motion equations are not solvable. the solution exists, we know for sure, and indeed the object follows a trajectory, but we cannot calculate them, the usual example I use is the simple pendulum, we cannot solve the motion equation exactly, the system is 'good' enough to let be accurate as we want, but generally you cannot assume that, so for finding a solution is needed to make some approximation and put constrain (thus the square and a triangle are the same for a physic), and come down a 'nice' equation you can solve.

LordCyberForte wrote: Given Alonon's speech about destiny, I'm not sure it's safe to make any assumptions about what he actually -means- by destiny. He kind of spoke in contradictory terms, because on the one hand he said there was no chance involved, but on the other he implied Varia's nature is just an outlier on a statistical distribution without any meaning behind it. However, the very idea of an outlier in a statistical distribution implies that there's chance involved. On the other hand, if that chance is just in the form of how this measurable destiny is distributed, then it doesn't necessarily contradict itself. Though it does make one wonder what the difference between a world where events are the result of chance and a world where events are the result of destiny distributed as random chance.

for an external observer don't change much, but for internal element this change everything. after a destiny is tagged to you, your path is fixed and you cannot do anything go to far from that road.

The exchange also brings to mind Alonon's earlier comments implying that the shard warps the world around the user--or at least, that the shard is a symptom of -something- warping the world around the user, and also the idea of Mestan being able to innately judge people's potential (at least in combat). There's also the fact that one could reasonably explain the Chosen by some kind of warping of an intrinsic destiny toward a certain end. In a certain way, there's a similarity between Kalant's narrative and Varia's, both their lives being driven to some extent by circumstances outside of their control sort of regardless of what they do. No matter what the Chosen fight, be it rats or evil, they gain power from it and are driven toward enemies. Of course, in their cases it seems to also twist their nature much more directly.

Perhaps the destiny of a person is tied to his/her soul, there are force can manipulate that, and changing the soul can change the destiny. vhala after the process stop aging, like an IK or alonon himself.

I do have sort of a theory as to what the missing piece might be, but it’s something I was theorizing before all of this, so I haven’t decided if it makes any sense with these revelations or not. Anyone else have any thoughts on what it might be?

mithyn dialogue: "It's inevitable. Ever since that old man saw inside. I just didn't think it would happen so soon. / Yes. I am saddened that the knowledge has broken him. / I can't blame him for rejecting this disgusting world. But we have no choice except to face reality."

even two goddess (presumably) aren't above the 'cruel joke', and they behave like their action can be meaning.

Ripett wrote: Anyone else feel like it was Alonon who sent those demons after Tyna? Mestan said that it wasn't an assassination attempt so having it as a way to improve her "legitimacy" (something we have an option to do with Bhakan!) is a possibility. And Alonon is probably the only person other than Simon and his group who want Tyna as a Queen.

Hell, he might even chose Kalant as a consort so he made his move when he was close so he could improve his chances at the same time...

he knows (now) sabitha is a demon, a powerful and intelligent demon, and isn't the only one. the anak right hand is probably a demon too, I think someone had tried to make an attack for his/her reason, and the culprit isn't [in that moment] in the 'real plane', and I think the mystic rift in ardford during the summit was an effect of alonon power, but if they have another source?