Board Thread:Off-topic Discussion/@comment-34929634-20180307190349/@comment-34929634-20180309114403

Hey Lostone2 (and Decanter) thanks for the welcome. And Fulminato, data analysis is really useful. Really, really useful.

To answer Lostone2's points:

1. I'm hoping to get a group of contributors from this wiki and maybe elsewhere, to do a bunch of marketing prepwork to relieve SL's marketing load. In an ideal world, whoever's in the group would be able to take it over entirely, to relieve her of that marketing aspect. But this isn't an ideal world, so just doing some of the prepwork would be enough, I think. Stuff like: * SL has mentioned that she's not very fond of, or has the skillset for, doing trailers in general, but trailers sell games (especially on Steam).
 * Making a list of sites, lets' players, digital marketplaces, etc, to send press kits to.
 * Creating press kits, or at least suggesting the pieces and ideas for them. You mentioned that SL asked the community before for ideas for trailers of DoW; I'm proposing that we do that for future games
 * Figuring out alternatives to social media or alternatives to most of the pieces of the traditional digital marketing route and executing them.

I ask for the solo projects mainly because most of them are already complete (except for TLS), so they're just easier to market in general rather than the episodic release system of TLS or KoD (on HG's side). I mean, still possible, just a completely different marketing plan. Also, I've run this idea (that's all it is right now) past Sierra, but not the other half of HG. I also want a proof of concept first.

2. Yes, I've played all of the games you've listed (except Claire's Quest and Daughter's Essence which will change...shortly). I still stand by what I said, but I admit I didn't communicate what I meant accurately. *In context with the wider adult industry and adult games industry in particular*, the types of games that Sierra makes sort of 'straddle the line between SFW and NSFW gaming', which makes it really hard to quantify and market. Because as mentioned, the way they work knocks out traditional marketing for both SFW games (NSFW imagery) and NSFW games (long setup time). Which is what makes them unique. I can't talk about Claire's Quest or Daughter of Essence (thanks for the recommendations though!) but the rest explicitly fall over the line into NSFW, (+ Noxian Nights is someone else's IP, so there are problems if Riot decides it wants to step in).

3. If you look at the sites that feature adult games (Nutaku, LewdGamer, Newgrounds, Mikandi, etc), the majority of games on the front pages are anime-influenced, if not straight out anime. Other alternatives are: mechanima-type 3D porn and Western-simplified sex animations. But those are rarer, comparatively speaking. In Nutaku and LewdGamer, the ones that appear to receive the most promotion are also those with shiny Japanese-style trailers. In terms of hits, and downloads, I can't say for certain, but surely if there isn't a market for Japanese stuff, they wouldn't feature quite so much of it. Quick browse through the "Top Ranking Free Nutaku Porn Page" shows that 14 out of 16 are Japanese-influenced art.

Granted, some of these sites might be biased samples (i.e. LewdGamer mostly focuses on Japanese releases anyway - despite that both Cypress Zeta and SL have been featured there).

There's a third type of visual, which is the "real" type, e.g. "Play Poker with XX(X) pornstar". That's the type of sex animation that's generally linked with adult affiliate networks like Adxxx (although they do pop up on some of the sites that feature adult games, too).

4. It is, but not that different. Noting that I'm familiar with SFW games marketing, you basically have to send up a bunch of details (trailers, copy(writing/description/hooks), screenshots, and possibly a demo); press kits and what you send into marketplaces ARE different, but only by matter of degree, not kind. Namely, that journalists want something to talk about (although they're not averse to just straight up copy-and-pasting), while digital marketplaces want something that will sell. So the copy is different, but the trailer and the screenshots can be identical (ideally not though, since potential customers want a bit of variety)

5. That's what I mean by social media problems (and needing alternatives). Twitter also recently started enforcing its ban on pornographic depictions and promotions.

6. No, you're absolutely right, you're right to be suspicious. I shouldn't have included the money stuff in there. Honestly, I do marketing as a day job, so it's a bit hard for me to turn the tendency off. And I'd like to see TLS get more exposure, because I think it's got some really awesome stuff in it, which might help to improve NSFW gaming as an industry (in terms of trends, artistic development, and exposure to a wider audience in general). There /is/ also money in it, potentially, with expanding this kind of marketing out to other independent adult game creators. As far as I know (could be hugely wrong, still looking), there isn't really any adult games publishers out there for SL's kind of games (or DoE and CQ as you recommended earlier) - the closest alternative is something like SakuraGames on Steam, and they do a bunch of translation-heavy Chinese stuff (primarily VNs). So a lot of the independent creators are fantastic at the development side, not so great at the promotion side, which is a pity. Not to mention that the usual route as in SFW marketing is somewhat lacking, because there's just less of everything (There are so many SFW games review sites that it's hard to choose which ones to approach - there aren't that many NSFW ones in comparison.)

Money... at this point I see this (potential) group as just a group of volunteers. Doing it out of passion and a love for TLS and growing TLS' community and exposure. So it's not like it would be paid work, even if people join up. ...I suppose I'm talking like people wouldn't. I think I'm too used to doing projects solo, with people only joining in if they're paid. While I've run this by Sierra, I'm not recruiting in her name...that makes me sound like a cultist! (and a conman). Just someone passionate about TLS, that is all.

However, if in the future, this works out really well, we might look to expand to other independent adult game creators (to do their marketing for a small fee). And then we could get incorporated, and pay money via bank transfers (to ease the PayPal problem) and middlemen (e.g. Payoneer) and stuff. But that is a very, very, very, very, very far off opportunity. It relies on many, many "what ifs" to have happen. So this is a volunteer proposal.

Resumes - marketing is, honestly, a crapton of work. Even split out among multiple people. It's work that WILL give you resume-applicable skills (research, marketing experience, copywriting if you take that side on), but it's experience that you can't state unless you're willing to put "promoted indie adult games" on your CV.

Yeah, I figure the wiki will kick up once the new version is out.

LOLTohru - where does the YanSim fandom hang out? (Also, what's your Tumblr?)